Curse

baz777 · Apr 04, 2006, 07:52 AM // 07:52

Firstly apologies if I have posted in the wrong section but the question is relevant to a number of area’s such as Heroes, GVG………….

There is some debate within our Guild and with PUG’s in Heroes as to which should be the priority in targeting. The usual ‘get monks first’ is always prevalent obviously but I usually argue to target the Mesmers first.

My thoughts on this, being a Monk, may be based on selfish self preservation as a good Mesmer can make it extremely difficult for me, and I do realise that other professions may have their own problems and priorities.

You thoughts would be welcome, although I appreciate that priorities change depending upon the team build that you are against, so general views please.

Silent Kitty · Apr 04, 2006, 08:15 AM // 08:15

Actually, you shouldn't all go for the monk. I think a warrior and a mesmer would be enough, while the others watch their own backs, or do what they usually do in battle

Even the best monk is toast, when a warrior and mesmer team up together. It will take you about 2 secs, if you manage to reach him/her. Always kill the healer first. (I can't believe it's me saying this

)

Mystical · Apr 04, 2006, 08:17 AM // 08:17

This topic has been brought up over and over and we'll probably see it again (search ftw!).

Anyway, it depends on what type of build you're running. Some builds just target anyone and everyone (ie. hex overload) and than maybe spike a target down. Spikes will go for the profession that can most likely shut them down. Big damage will probably go for monks, but it depends if they're getting shut down which they would change.

It really depends on what the other team is running and how effectively.

lyra_song · Apr 04, 2006, 08:51 AM // 08:51

Kill the most dangerous target first.

The key is learning how different builds work, and this only comes from experience.

We did some TA and HA runs yesterday and the priority targets ranged from:

Illusion Mesmer with ineptitude
Domination Mesmer with E-denial
Air Elementalist with Thunderclap
Orders Necros/Trapper Rangers/Spirit Spammer Rangers (Iway)
Bonding Monk
Spiteful/Shivers Necro

studentochaos · Apr 04, 2006, 09:35 AM // 09:35

In my experience a good caller quickly recognizes and addresses A. Enemy threats B. Enemy Weaknesses. This is not to forget that a monk can be a threat. The monk makes the team continue to pound you and not addressing the enemy bonder (for example) means you will have a long match to say the least. However, if you see someone on their team overextended or low on health, quickly alerting your team means you may get an easy kill.

Caller is a quick thinking profession that requires excellent knowledge of builds. If the caller doesn't recognize blessed signet and dismisses it, you have the wrong person as caller. A more subtle example is if your caller sees a Necro who casts Awaken the blood it may be an SS Necro wheras if they see the necro on a warrior/ranger heavy team cast blood ritual it is probably an orders player. This isn't set in stone, but knowing common interactions helps a lot. Early analysis will help the team long into the game because if in the first 5 seconds you can recognize the threats the caller can list them in his head and move through them methodically.

Haggard · Apr 04, 2006, 11:38 AM // 11:38

Like Kitty said, if you have a mes and warrior on the monk, while the rest of the party takes down the other 'squishy targets', the monk will have infinitely more pressure on him and is more likely to let himself or hsi teamates die.

XvArchonvX · Apr 04, 2006, 01:23 PM // 13:23

In PvE I personally think it's a bit advantageous to have at least one person attack off target to force the enemy monk to have to heal to allies instead of one. While the off target will likely not be killed by the one person alone, it will give a much greater chance for the rest of the group to take down the other target.

As for who you attack first, that decision is usually very situational and usually doesn't matter a whole lot, though killing the support characters (i.e. monks, necros, mesmers, etc.) is usually a good way of making the rest go down easier.

Former Ruling · Apr 04, 2006, 01:37 PM // 13:37

usually the "norm" now is to keep a Surge mesmer on the monk to keep them busy while you kill off major support targets (or even other monks).

fiery · Apr 04, 2006, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Depends on the build, if it's a spike work on soft targets and spike a monk or whatever is close. Say Ranger spike, no need to hit on soft targets go straight to the closet in line range. Depends, you may get a kill from a out of position whatever, pending a warrior/elementalist etc.

yesitsrob · Apr 04, 2006, 01:58 PM // 13:58

when playing warrior - I generally whack away on a soft target or warriors that over extend, when full on adrenaline I'll spike a monk if one is close by or another soft target like a necro or a mesmer.... it really does depend on the build though, there's and yours

Uriel Swift · Apr 04, 2006, 02:31 PM // 14:31

When my guild and I first started, I would have said, "GO FOR THE MONK STOOPID!" I would have added, "you go for the monk becuase he heals others, it's just that simple."

Thank god I have a functiong human brain and I have the ability to learn. After playing for a long time and watching high-level guilds play, you can see how to target effectively.

The key is that there is no simple, "Target First" targeting method. The best way to pick and choose targets is to see priorities and weaknesses in the other team.

For instance, say a warrior has just rushed your monk, and your monk falls back, taking the warrior away from healing. And, just for kicks, the warrior uses frenzy. Well by all means man, hit that warrior! Even if the monks are up, a good amount of damage before the warrior can get back to his healing will kill him.

Another example, you notice that the Mesmer is using OoB for his energy management (for some reason). Well, wait for his sac, then spike.

In conclusion, once you know how all the skills work and you can see the larger picture of the battlefield, you will see that having a set targeting method is not the way to go. But you should put some pressure on the monks most of the time

Tarkin · Apr 04, 2006, 04:03 PM // 16:03

for stupid...

Poison Ivy · Apr 04, 2006, 04:08 PM // 16:08

Best way is to ask a team mate.

fiery · Apr 04, 2006, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Why go for the monk? If you can go for the infuser

.

Charqus · Apr 04, 2006, 04:15 PM // 16:15

Depends i say...
It depends on what type of team your facing.. if IWAYnecros... But otherwise i'd probly do mesmers... monks... eles....etc

Alleji · Apr 04, 2006, 07:35 PM // 19:35

There's way too many variables... your build and what could interfere with it (ex. oath shot spammer against a spike), enemy's build and what would mess it up (ex. taking out their martyr if you're condition-heavy), the map you're playing, positioning (if a warrior overextends into your backline), situational opportunities - "he's got frenzy, spike him down"

Having a hard-and-fast rule "always take out monks" would hurt your team more than help it. You need a caller that's able to evaluate the battlefield on the spot.

Lord Iowerth · Apr 04, 2006, 08:23 PM // 20:23

PvE: Monks and other squishy casters are your 1st targets, usually. Some of the mesmer mobs in higher levels of the game take first priority for me, depending on what class i'm playing.

PvP: Varies greatly depending on where you are in PvP (GvG, HA, Random, etc) ... but the general idea is to identify your opposing team's build, and knock out the key player. Random arena, not so much, but if you're facing an IWAY team in HA for example, a good idea might be to take out the orders necro if they've overextended from their group. Taking out bonders in R-spike groups, taking out a spirit spammer in a Necro spike group, etc.

There is no dead-set rule for who to "Always" target first. This is a truth that the "ZOMG! yer sposed to attack the monks first!" people have trouble grasping ... you can put alot more pressure on a monk by making him use all his energy on healing someone that you can do alot of damage to.

Lambentviper · Apr 04, 2006, 09:01 PM // 21:01

especially in PvP does it vary on the monk. With all these Mo/Me Boon-Prots running around tanking whole teams 1v4 while the rest of his team picks us off is annoying.

SO bases on the monks profession, you can sometimes guess if they are heal, prot, both, or smite. <--Thanks to the pre-made templates alot of people follow for monking

Phaern Majes · Apr 04, 2006, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Basically I usually go for monks first, unless:

1) The monk isn't a healer
2) My team is powerful enough to take out others despite the healing.

Monks generally don't do much damage to you so focusing on them completely can cause you to lose. You just have to see if your team is able to deal more damage than the monks can heal. If so then ignore the monks. If not then send 1-2 players after the monk to distract them. After that I usually take out Mesmers, Necros, Elementalists, Rangers, and the Warriors. Usually in that order.

Inureface · Apr 04, 2006, 11:13 PM // 23:13

In team arena 4v4, usually we get our mesmer on their monk, me (thumper) on a softie, and our degen/curses necro on the tough guys (ranger and warrior). But thats not really kill who first. I guess you have to look at who's on the oter team and prioritize or pressure multiple targets, but unlike what alot of people order their list, mine is like

Mesmer --> Ranger --> Ele/Necro --> Necro/Ele --> Monk --> Warrior

As long as you have someone pressuring monk, that order usually works OK